The images take up so much computer storage space! While a built-in intervalometer is not essential, I find I often do use the Canon and Nikon in-camera intervalometers for simple shoots. Thank you! I.E. https://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/sony-a7riii-star-spreading-raw-composites/. When used with the Genie Mini (below) the Sony fired at only every other pulse if it was in Single shot mode, an oddity of Sony’s firmware. As its name implies, a mirrorless camera lacks the reflex mirror of a digital single lens reflex camera that, in a DSLR, provides the light path for framing the scene though the optical viewfinder. At the Raw-files from dpreview.com shows that a7rIII much less noisy than the Canon 6D and Nikon D750. Change ). I've been shooting with the latest model, the Sony a7iii, at high ISOs to find out how well it performs in real-world shooting in low-light conditions at high ISOs. In other words: the larger the aperture, the better. You believe it will be the case, but did you know? The one thing that I would like is the on camera apps that can be put on the M2 and below. I have now retired my Sony a6000 and added a new filly to the stables, a Sony a7III. At its most basic level, all you’ll need to create stunning images of the sky at night is one of the cameras mentioned in this article (or similar), a lens, a tripod and your own sense of creativity. Hi Alan, I don’t want to detract from an otherwise fantastic review, so feel free not to post this. I would not recommend the a7III for deep sky. But that’s a nuisance to do, and should not be necessary with a mirrorless camera. The A73 has the following shooting modes: Intelligent Auto: All settings are handled by the camera and it’ll even try to identify the scene from the list of … Which will have the lower noise? Finally, if you’re interested in learning more about astrophotography, we recommend the website Lonely Speck, which is dedicated to the genre and is run by passionate astro-photographers. Have you done this testing? Mine usually ends up between 25m and 50m. with LENR “on” with “lens cap on” to get a larger sampling of dark frames, to manually subtract in post? Func. Sony SEL50F14Z Planar T* FE 50mm F/1.4 ZA Lens: Best Overall Lens for Sony a7iii. I’m not here to knock Sony, in fact I shoot with one, using an A7R for my astro work because of this issue. I put the new Sony a7III mirrorless camera through its paces for the features and functions we need to shoot the night sky. This would explain why in your first test the +4 EV image (iso 400) and in your second test the +3 and +4 EV images (iso 200, iso 400) appear iso variant. And what else could you compare it to? Thank you, Alan! I appreciate the work and dedication. There is no particular reason for this – just that I never really had the chance to do it at the right time since we review so many products. I did notice the difference in detail between the Nikon and the Sony on the cropped in, ISO invariance test shots. So points to Sony here. Some time-lapse controllers are able to connect to a camera through its USB port and then adjust the ISO and aperture as well, for ramped “holy grail” sunset-to-Milky Way sequences. Sony not performing as good as competitors? Even if super dark capture knowing post will be great. Obviously if the camera does it automatically, you can relax while waiting and you also avoid touching it too much. With DSLRs it is the raised mirror which often casts a shadow, produced a dark vignetted band along the bottom of the frame. Lately I had the chance to use the Laowa 15mm and I was very pleased with it. And what you want to use the camera for. For example, the TimeLapse+ View (see http://www.timelapseplus.com) works great for automated holy grails, but the developer recommends that with most Sonys the minimum allowed interval between shots is longer (8 to 14 seconds) than with Canons and Nikons. Uncompressed Raws are 47 Mb in size; Compressed Raws are 24 Mb. Using other Raw converters might affect this. But it is extreme pixel peeping. You want to take your images when the sky is as dark as possible, which means avoiding a full moon because it will brighten the sky too much and make the Milky Way more difficult to see. I’ve used this new function and it works very well. Nikons don’t have this, not even the D810a, and not Sonys. Forget the verbal arguments from authority — I invite you to do the experiment. Canon and Nikon both offered factory modified cameras at one time, notably the Canon 60Da and Nikon D810a. ( Log Out / The position of some settings can vary slightly from one model to another.Older Sony cameras (mark II series and below) have an older menu system so there are more differences in relation to icons and the location of certain setting. is this the opposite effect as stacking, which adds “other frsmes” with unwanted noise?). Yes, that’s right Steve. In most shooting situations, I found using LENR provided the overriding positive benefit of reducing hot pixels. To get the most out of the Sony for deep-sky imaging you would have to have it modified by a third-party, though the amp glow described above makes it a poor choice for modification. I like its image stacking options, which can help alleviate the noise and artifacts in still images, but aren’t practical for time-lapses. The period around the new moon, when it isn’t visible or only partially visible is the best time. But in the end the Sony shots showed stars to the same limiting magnitude as the other cameras. https://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/the-sony-a7riii-eats-stars/ We have have published lots of articles dedicated to Sony cameras, with full comparisons and much more. As silly as it sounds, it looks like the aggressive noise reduction is not applied with that configuration, although the bit depth drops from 14 to 12-bit. you will find the following parameters. Yet frames taken with LENR on were the same 47 Mb size as normal uncompressed frames. We will see if that theory proves correct. I have a Sony A7Sii and I have not used it for a night photography or for deep sky, but I’m going to now, I’ve been away from the Hobby for a while and want to get back into the deep sky stuff. https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4167521#forum-post-59686724 Tilting LCD Screen I don’t consider myself an expert, and I should probably do it more often, but I’ve enjoyed every single outing I’ve been on and I’ve learned a few things along the way. I don’t know if Nikon is still using Sony sensors but both brands seem to be making very good cameras. Your personal data won't be recorded until the form has been submitted successfully. In-Camera Image Stacking To me your 2 versus 4 second exposure comparison also shows the tell-tale signs. Eliminate all the variables — except one — you’re just varying the collecting area. One area you don’t really call out is astrophotography software support, and support by programs such as AstroPhotography Toolkit (APT) or similar (BackyardEOS/BackyardNikon, etc). (Interval Shooting Function) and is located in Camera Settings 1 / Shoot Mode Drive2 (page 4/14). During my time testing the Batis 18mm, I didn’t get the chance to take interesting astro images because it was cloudy most of the time. I’m sorry, but I have to agree with John on this one: Your comparison of different exposure times *clearly* shows, that the filtering is still in effect and it wipes the smallest stars (up to 4 or 5 pixels area). As versatile as a mirrorless camera is for lens choice, making use of that versatility requires buying the right lens adapter(s). In testing the Sony a7III I ignored all the auto functions. I wanted to comment on one thing, after reading the entire publication, I have the question of whether the sony a7iii has to be compared with the canon 6d mark ii or with the 5d mark iv (and the same with nikon, although I don’t know the name of the model higher). You can then evaluate which aperture worked best at home. — Alan, May 31, 2018 / Revised June 6, 2018 & March 27, 2019 / © 2018 Alan Dyer / AmazingSky.com. Cheers! it is to be expected that, on A7s3 with bigger pixels, the effect will still strongly show up and that sony is still turning a deaf ear to the astrophotographers. With the Canon full-frames you simply fire the shutter again. Your hands will remain free and you’ll see what you’re doing much better. The 50mm prime camera lens, according to many Sony A7iii users, is one of the best lenses available, which the company provides in its massive lineup of superior and high-quality optics. You mention with the a7iii that it’s not completely iso invariant and that the files when pushed 4 stops were not as clean as the shot taken at iso 6400. • The a7III lacks any internal intervalometer or ability to add one via an app. I have updated the Review with some new tests to address questions raised by some of the commenters. The amount collected also fluctuates to a lesser or larger extent, depending on the quantum efficiency of the collector (pixel). Assign it to one of the hardware Custom C buttons. This makes it so easy to frame nightscapes and deep-sky fields. To do this, choose, Optional: reduce the brightness of the LCD. This does a fine job smoothing frame-to-frame flickering in time-lapses, something the Canon cannot do. We shoot everything on manual. The resulting values and graph show the Sony actually measured worse for noise than the Nikon at each high ISO speed, 3200 to 12800, though with both performing much better than the Canon. Slightly bigger stars are turned into green blobs or get a green halo. Again, the differences are in images vastly underexposed. First of all congratulate you, a very good publication. I don’t know if you’ve ever used the a7Rii to be able to comment; probably not or you would have in the arrticle. Limited Touch Screen Functions Live View Focusing and Framing (More on this further down). Sony doesn’t have an “a” model mirrorless. But no more! USB Power is not available on the A7 I series or the A7 II. UPDATE: In April 2019 Sony issued a v3 Firmware update for the a7III which added an internal intervalometer. Or rendered with little or no color at all. Note: if you’re using a manual focus lens, it probably has a distance scale on the barrel. Do the test and let me know. I can’t see anyone being unhappy about the sharpness of the starfield and galaxy itself in the 4 minute galaxy shot compared to the Canon version, and Canon surely sets the standard. By - January 11, 2021. This might be useful for long shoots, though likely as not that same USB port will be needed for an intervalometer or motion control device. Find the optimal focus distance where the point of light is as small and as sharp as possible. Live View was absolutely superb, though the outstanding Bright Monitoring function is as well-hidden as Sony could possibly make it. Thanks again. This seems to be related to availability and quality of Sony SDKs, and is a big barrier for me. Func. USB Power Even if you’ve configured your Sony A7 III with all the best Milky Way settings, your native RAW files will look flat and the details in the sky will be faint. Released five years after the original A7, the Sony A7III marks the third generation of Sony’s ‘entry’ level full-frame mirrorless camera series. You can see an example below where we compared the A7R II and A7R III (pay attention to the small points of light). Do you know that for a fact from personal tests? Since publishing the first results a number of people commented with suggestions for further testing, to check claims that: For the additional tests, I shot all images within a 3-hour span on the night of June 5/6, using the Sony a7III, Nikon D750, and Canon 6D MkII, with the respective lenses: the Laowa 15mm lens at f/2, the Sigma 14mm Art at f/2, and the Rokinon 14mm SP at f/2.5. When shooting deep-sky objects, particularly red nebulas, we like a camera to have a less aggressive infrared cutoff filter, to pick up as much of the deep red Hydrogen-Alpha emission line as possible. Only the latest Canons offer in-camera stacking to average noise, which is not the same as dark-frame subtraction. The thinner body allows the use of lenses from any manufacturer, albeit requiring the right adapter, an additional expense. Looking at this now, I realise I could have been a bit more adventurous! You just need to compare the pictures where there is a real lack of light(such as on a moonless night or ISO 102400 on test images from dpreview.com). That’s why using exactly same sensor, different make and model cameras may produce diff quality images.). Battery Life I saw no great benefit from the BSI sensor. Sony a7III with Sony FE 200-600 F5.6/6.3G. I have not seen such “amp” glows in cameras (at least in the DSLRs I’ve used) for a number of years, so seeing it in the new Sony a7III was another surprise. I think any really ‘serious’ astrophotography users would be looking at a dedicated astro camera (CCD or CMOS), but know you can get some amazing results with a ‘normal’ quality camera such as those compared in this review. The a7III offers 4K video and, at 24 frames-per-second, is full-frame. However, while the Sony has a Bulb setting there is no Bulb Timer as there is with the Canon. Here are the results and some examples. Fair enough. Astronomy author and photographer Alan Dyer presents amazing sky sights. Use Compressed only if you plan to take lots of time-lapse frames and need to conserve memory card space on extended shoots. Thank you very much again! An 18mm lens or wider is ideal. I just read your evaluation of the Sony A7III in Sky & Telescope. While you can look through and frame using the EVF as you would with a DSLR, you are looking at an electronic image from the sensor, not an optical image from the lens. It’s unfair to blame just the hardware or the software. Thanks for doing it. For video, I would shoot in PP7 (slog-2) and either at 1/50 or 1/120 shutter speed depending on if I was filming in 24 fps or 60 fps. Well, it seems a7iii can be used for astrophotography, then what about a7riii? Try it. However, all will need the right camera control cable, available from suppliers like B&H. Even a supposedly ISO invariant Camera like the Sony can show noise and discoloration in underexposed images boosted later in exposure. But it can take the Canon lenses you might already own. “1 stop better in low light” isn’t always a flat comparison of 200 being as clean as 100, 3200 being as clean as 1600 etc. Therefore you want to maximise the light travelling through the lens and reaching the image sensor. Noise at typical astrophoto ISO speeds – 800 to 6400 – were about equal to the four-year-old Nikon D750. Stars were smoothed away along with the noise in exposures longer than 3.2 seconds in some Sony cameras (longer than 30 seconds in others). I did this testing in preparation for the new third edition of my Nightscapes and Time-Lapse eBook, which includes information on Sony mirrorless cameras, as well as many, many other updates and additions! A camera upgrade to a full frame is my next big purchase after I get some more experience with the T5i. This is on paper the best lens for astrophotography today, but it does come with a few flaws: it is very big and heavy and coma correction is not exactly as perfect as you would expect. Go to dpreview.com for comparison tools to allow you to judge any cameras you want on standard test charts. The Sony test report is revised to explain this. 0. Over the last year or so, firmware updates from Sony introduced a much-publicized penchant for Sony Alphas to “eat” stars even in Raw files, apparently due to an internal noise reduction or anti-aliasing routine users could not turn off. In conclusion, here’s my summary recommendations for the three competitive cameras, rating them from Poor, to Fair, to Good, to Excellent. An issue that, to me, has a more serious effect on star quality is the propensity of the Sony, and to some extent the Nikon, to render tiny stars as brightly colored points, unrealistically so. The lens performs really well for other situations such as landscape and architecture, has autofocus and is weather sealed. The addition of the intervalometer was noted in the review in an update. Both are very good – indeed, among the best performing cameras for high-ISO noise levels. Overall Recommendations That includes simple intervalometers like the Vello, the Syrp Genie Mini panning unit, and the Dynamic Perception and Rhino sliders, to name devices I use. So once again, post production is involved. I was using the wired Vello intervalometer. Check out our dedicated article to learn more (coming soon). With the 5D MKII you could take 5 lights. I show only the Sony and Nikon compared here, shot at the common range of ISOs used for nightscape shooting, 800 to 12800. Yes, they are not as bad anymore as on earlier A7RII firmwares, which originally created all the fuzz. So I can’t compare it to the a7r or a7s models. So even if you should only do a 12 second shot for no star trails with a 12mm f/4 for a big print you can increase the ISO or just leave at 800 and brighten in post. This might be a contributing factor. Well pro’s use tools and programs (apps) on a camera that get the end result they want/need without hauling valuable gear to a site to capture. Here I compare all three cameras for this effect in two-minute tracked exposures taken with Long Exposure Noise Reduction (i.e. The Sony would perform better for noise under dark sky conditions, at high ISOs, rather than the moonlit scene above. This is all with Raws developed with Adobe Camera Raw. Turn on LENR and it is possible to shoot three (with the 6D MkII) or four (with the 6D) Raw images in quick succession even with LENR turned on. I currently have an a7RII but have been considering the a7III, in part because I had read some things that seemed to indicate that it had better low light noise properties. Your cameras are getting worse for astrophotography while Sony’s are getting better. It is about bigger pixels producing less noise in a photo as a whole which is probably a myth. See https://alpinelaboratories.com/pages/radian-2-support-get-started_s. It is more expensive but I think it is a very good investment. To avoid any micro movements on the camera when pressing the shutter release button, make sure to set the Self Timer mode to 2s or preferably 5s. So beware! In Continuous mode, I think the effect is still there but maybe a little less. Coupled with a fast f/1.4 to f/2 lens, the slow shutter speed allows real-time aurora shooting at “only” ISO 6400 to 12,800, for quite acceptable levels of noise. While the 6D MkII has HD video, it is incapable of any low-light video work. Thanks! However, like other brands’ internal intervalometers Sony’s is good only for exposures up to 30 seconds long. You’ll need a good photo editor software that allows you to play with these kinds of tools. These beginner-friendly camera settings and tips should help you get your first successful image of the night sky. The correct exposure for the scene was 30 seconds at ISO 6400 and f/2. In fact, they have so much noise they are cooled with liquid nitrogen. In particular, many stars look green, from the dominance of green-filtered photosites on Bayer-array sensors. If you like to focus manually, this is a very useful aid, one of several that Sony generously offers to enhance the chore of achieving sharp focus without using autofocus features. All explained in my ebook! Or is this just a theory of how it should behave? We were not asked to write anything about these products, nor were we provided with any sort of compensation. 1. To the eye, the Sony and Nikon look very similar for noise levels, just as in the moonlit scene. Long exposures showed just as many stars as did short exposures. I am very impressed! Happy shooting, John. The Sony A7III uses a sensor that is “Backside Illuminated,” a feature that promises to improve low-light performance and reduce noise. The one I’m using is called Star Walk. Sony Alpha Mirrorless Resources, Check price of the Sony A7 III on:Amazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay, Check the price of the Sony A7R III on:Amazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay, Check price of the Sony A7R IV onAmazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay, Check price of the Sony A9 onAmazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay, Check price of the Sony A7 II on:Amazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay, Check price of the Sony A7R II on:Amazon | Amazon UK | B&H Photo | eBay. (See my test at https://amazingsky.net/2017/08/09/testing-the-canon-6d-mark-ii-for-nightscapes/). This is because the earth is rotating, so the position of the stars in the sky doesn’t stay the same for long. Light Frame Buffer in LENR However, the screen does not flip out and reverse, a feature useful for vloggers, but seldom needed for astrophotography. That said, even the slower (f/4) FE mount zooms would work just fine for astrophotography with the Sony a7S since the ISO performance is still pretty clean from 3200 to 51200, so maybe I … The D750 is fabulous but the Sony is almost as good – much better for Live View – and accepts all lenses. I made that comment in the blog. SONY: I deducted marks from the Sony a7III for deep-sky imaging for its lack of a light frame buffer, poor red sensitivity, odd LENR performance, and purple amp glow not seen on the other cameras and that dark frames did not eliminate. The Nikon seems to discolor stars only when LENR is applied. Thanks for the suggestions! The Sony a7III uses a sensor that is “Backside Illuminated,” a feature that promises to improve low-light performance and reduce noise. “The 2008-vintage 5D MkII had a 5-frame buffer!” The Sony a7III’s screen is, but only to select an area for auto focus or zooming up an image in playback. In order to see the real situation with the noise you need to compare pictures with a large lack of lighting. Those underexposed images were then boosted later in processing (in Adobe Camera Raw) by the required Exposure Value to equalize the image brightness. It’s perfectly normal. But Live Focus is where the a7III really stands out. I keep my A7RM2 vs upgrading to the A7RM3 for that reason BUT BUT LOVE REALLY LOVE the A7M3 for the sensor (ISO Invariant) and the 10 frames per second and many other likes!!! Almost any camera will behave well in this comparison. While these might add glows to long exposure images, if they could be designed not to do that (i.e. And both cameras performed much better than the ISO “variant” Canon in this test. Also the best thing is ISO Invariance from 800 to 51200 with the least amount of noise for Mark 2 cameras and above. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. This is particularly true if you want to make the Milky Way stand out. I like the fact that the a7III has way better battery life, too. But keep in mind that the darker you go, the more details you can get out of the sky. The astrophotography cameras I’m going to talk about don’t need expensive filters and complicated computer-controlled, star-tracking tripod mounts in order to work. This also means that the shorter your focal length is (the wider your lens is), the longer the shutter speed can be. For use on telescopes, the simple adapters will be sufficient, and necessary as many telescope-to-camera adapters and field flatteners are optimized for the longer lens flange-to-sensor distance of a DSLR. Doing two shots one below for the brightness (lower ISO/higher f//slower SS or any combination) and another for the sky above (last shot) (just opposite of first) getting a combo adjustable before saving and getting a raw to work in post. All images are equally well exposed. Either way, you will have to stack your images together in post (star trails) to produce one final photo, or order them one after the other (time-lapse) to create a video. Sensor Illumination Uniformity Well, almost. Hi, it all depends on what you want to buy or already have for lenses. Thanks! This allows the Live View image to reflect the camera settings in use, better simulating the actual exposure, even without Bright Monitoring on. If you compare iso 640, to shots at 3-4-5 stops higher, I believe you’ll see more similar results. While there is still some noise reduction going on, it is not as dramatic as before. In a mirrorless, the camera remains in “live view” all the time, with the sensor always feeding a live image to either or both the rear LCD screen and electronic viewfinder (EVF). This is really pixel peeping at 400%. In real life images, such as I have shown, it makes very little difference even in deep-sky images which are the most demanding of star quality. I have been successful in small villages because there is less concentration of light. You’re right about the benefits being more in the shadows than the highlights though. But there’s also bunch of new setting you won’t find on any previous Sony a7-series cameras. For star trails, you can do without an intervalometer and take different exposures of up to 5 minutes. Here are 7 astrophotography tips that have helped me capture hundreds of images of the night sky including stars, the Milky Way, Galaxies, Nebulae and more. first, the stars on your images are extended typically on 3 pixels, so they are not as dramatically reduced as stars extended on a single pixel. See http://docs.view.tl/#camera-specific-notes, With the Alpine Laboratories Radian2, exposure ramping is not possible with a Sony, only basic shutter triggering.
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